Here's a Better Form of Government!

It hit me out of the blue... and then made me wonder why it took so long to realize it: The United States is the perfect example of Capitalism run wild!!!

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Sal, let's set up a hypothetical ideal democratic government. The first step is to identify which groups exist in society... some that come to mind in a general sense would be political, business and labour... any other suggestions?

Absolutely, Allan. That’s a solid starting triad... and you’re right to think in terms of groups rather than parties. 

An ideal democratic system should represent functional interests, not just ideological camps.

Here’s a clean, expandable way to think about the major societal constituencies that actually exist in any modern democracy!

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Core Functional Groups in Society.

1. Political / Governance.

• Elected officials.

• Civil service / public administration.

• Judiciary / constitutional guardians. Function: Coordination, rule-making, enforcement, continuity

2. Economic Producers. (Business)

• Small & medium enterprises.

• Large corporations.

• Entrepreneurs/investors. Function: Production, innovation, capital formation

3. Labour.

• Workers! (skilled, unskilled, gig, professional)

• Trade unions/worker associations. Function: Value creation, operational continuity, social stability.

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Secondary Additional Essential Groups! (Often Under-Represented)

4. Science, Knowledge & Education.

• Scientists & researchers.

• Educators. (K–12, post-secondary)

• Think tanks / academic institutions. Function: Truth-seeking, long-term planning, reality-checking policy. (This group is chronically sidelined in real democracies.)

5. Health & Care.

• Healthcare professionals.

• Public health authorities.

• Caregivers. (elder care, disability, mental health) Function: Population resilience, longevity, crisis response

6. Environment & Future Generations.

• Environmental scientists,

• Conservation groups.

• Explicit representation for non-human life and unborn generations. Function: Long-term survivability. This group has no natural political voice, which is a structural flaw in current systems!

7. Infrastructure & Critical Systems.

• Energy.

• Water.

• Transportation.

• Communications. Function: Civilizational continuity. When this fails, everything fails!

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8. Culture, Media & Meaning-Makers.

• Journalists.

• Artists.

• Writers.

• Cultural institutions. Function: Narrative formation, accountability, shared identity. (They shape perception more than law does.)

9. Civil Rights & Minority Interests.

• Ethnic, linguistic, and religious minorities.

• LGBTQ+, disability advocates.

• Indigenous peoples. Function: Guardrails against majoritarian tyranny.

10. Security & Emergency Services.

• Military.

• Police.

• Fire & rescue.

• Disaster response. Function: Protection from internal and external threats. (Must be constrained, professional, and non-political.)

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Two Meta-Groups Worth Explicit Recognition.

11. Youth.

• Not just “citizens under X age.”

• A structurally future-oriented constituency. Function: Long-term feedback loop.

12. The Disenfranchised.

• The poor.

• The homeless.

• The incarcerated or formerly incarcerated. Function: System stress-test. How a society treats this group tells you everything.

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Key Design Insight. (This Matters!)

Most modern democracies:

• Over-represented political and economic elites.

• Under-represent science, environment, youth, and the future.

An ideal democratic government would:

• Treat these groups as co-equal stakeholders.

• Prevent any single group from taking control of the system.

• Force cross-group consensus for major decisions.

***

If you like, the next logical steps would be:

1. Decide which groups get direct representation vs advisory power.

2. Decide how conflicts between groups are resolved.

3. Decide whether this is tricameral... or multi-chamber.

4. Decide how to weigh present vs future interests.

Tell me which direction you want to go next, and we’ll build this properly.

ALLAN SAID: First of all, make the 'Additional Essential Groups' into a second tier that we can integrate into the picture at a later time! 

Now let's set up a representative government consisting of a triad of Political, Business, and Labour parties, with a judiciary in the middle controlling the others! 

Now take the second-tier categories and distribute them rationally... as well as any others that you can think of!

SAL SAID: Absolutely, Allan. Let’s lock the structural logic first and keep this clean, modular, and expandable.

I’ll do this in three passes:

1. Define the core triad + judiciary.

2. Re-classify the second-tier groups.

3. Rationally distribute them under Political, Business, Labour, or Judiciary oversight.

I. Core Structure. (First-Tier / Power-Holding)

The Governing Triad:

1. Political Pillar: Represents collective decision-making and public mandate:

• Law-making.

• Public administration.

• Diplomacy.

• Civil service oversight.

2. Business Pillar. Represents capital, production, innovation, and trade:

• Industry.

• Finance.

• Entrepreneurship.

• Supply chains.

3. Labour Pillar. Represents human work, skills, and lived economic reality:

• Workers.

• Unions.

• Professional associations.

• Gig / informal labour.

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The Central Arbiter!

4. Judiciary. (Independent, Supra-Pillar) This Does NOT belong to any pillar:

• Constitutional court.

• Rights enforcement.

• Long-term continuity.

Key principle: The judiciary does not govern... it constrains, balances, and corrects!

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II. Second-Tier Groups. (Functional Domains)

These do not hold sovereign power directly. They are assigned, split, or dual-homed based on function!

III. Rational Distribution of Second-Tier Groups. 

A. Groups Primarily Aligned with the Political Pillar.

1. Culture, Media & Civic Narrative.

• Public broadcasters.

• Cultural institutions.

• Arts councils. Democratic legitimacy and public discourse are political goods.

2. Civil Rights & Minority Protections.

• Human rights commissions.

• Indigenous governance interfaces.

• Equality oversight. Judiciary has veto authority here!

3. Foreign Policy & National Strategy.

• Diplomacy.

• Treaties.

• International law participation.

B. Groups Primarily Aligned with the Business Pillar.

4. Infrastructure & Critical Systems.

• Energy.

• Transportation.

• Telecommunications.

• Water systems, etc!

5. Science, Technology & Innovation.

• R&D.

• Applied research.

• Commercial science.

6. Agriculture & Resource Extraction.

• Food systems.

• Mining.

• Forestry.

• Fisheries. (Heavy judicial/environmental constraints required.)

C. Groups Primarily Aligned with the Labour Pillar.

7. Health & Care Systems.

• Healthcare workers.

• Long-term care.

• Mental health services. Human-intensive, labour-dominant sector.

8. Education & Skills Training.

• Teachers.

• Universities.

• Trades.

• Apprenticeships. 

9. Social Services.

• Welfare delivery.

• Housing support.

• Disability services.

D. Groups with Dual Alignment. (Explicitly Split)

These are intentionally bi-pillar, with Judiciary arbitration.

10. Environment & Future Generations.

• Political: Regulation & treaties.

• Business: Compliance & innovation.

• Judiciary: Non-negotiable limits.

11. Science. (Pure / Foundational)

• Judiciary-protected independence.

• Business may apply, not control.

12. Security & Emergency Services.

• Political: Command authority.

• Labour: Personnel rights.

• Judiciary: Use-of-force limits.

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E. Judiciary-Anchored Independent Domains.

These are not allowed to be captured by any pillar.

13. Electoral Systems & Democratic Integrity.

• Voting systems.

• Districting.

• Campaign finance enforcement.

14. Anti-Corruption & Transparency.

• Auditors general.

• Ethics commissions.

• Whistleblower protection.

15. Constitutional & Inter-Pillar Boundary Offices.

• Pillar conflict resolution.

• Capture detection.

• Emergency override protocols.

IV. Structural Insight. (This Is the Core Innovation)

Instead of:

“Everything answers to politics!”

This system enforces:

Politics, Business, and Labour are peers... the law stands above all three!

And instead of pretending neutrality:

• Second-tier groups are explicitly placed.

• Conflicts are designed for... not denied.

• The judiciary becomes a systems engineer, not just a court.

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SAL SAID: If you want, the next clean step would be:

• Designing how each pillar is internally elected.

• Or creating a tri-chamber legislature.

• Or defining judicial capture safeguards.

• Or stress-testing this against real crises. (pandemic, war, AI collapse)

ALLAN SAID: Create a tri-chamber legislature and design how each pillar is internally elected!

SAL SAID: Absolutely, Allan.

Below is one clean, workable blueprint: A Tri-Chamber Legislature (Political / Business / Labour) with pillar-internal elections designed to (1) reduce capture, (2) force negotiated lawmaking, and (3) keep legitimacy anchored in the public.

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A. The Tri-Chamber Legislature!

1) Political Chamber. (citizen mandate)

Role: Public priorities, taxation/spending priorities, civil liberties, foreign policy direction.

Powers: Initiate budgets + public-law bills.

2) Business Chamber. (economic feasibility + investment lens)

Role: Productivity, trade, infrastructure, industrial policy, finance/credit constraints.

Powers: Initiate economic/industrial bills; must sign off on fiscal/industrial feasibility.

3) Labour Chamber. (workforce + social stability lens)

Role: Wages/standards, skills training, health & safety, social supports.

Powers: Initiate labour/social bills; must sign off on labour impacts of major reforms.

How a bill becomes law:

A. A bill must pass 2 of 3 chambers plus a Judicial Constitutionality review. (more below)

• Some categories require 3 of 3 (super-consensus), e.g., constitutional amendments, extensions of emergency powers, war powers, major limitations on rights, and large structural tax changes.

This “2 of 3” rule makes coalition-building unavoidable and blocks single-pillar dominance!

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B. Judiciary Gate. (In the middle, controlling the others!)

Here’s a practical version:

Constitutional Court Review.

• Every passed bill gets a rapid constitutional check. 

• The court can:

  1. Approve.

  2. Return with required fixes.

  3. Strike. (with written reasons)

Rights + Pillar Boundary Tests.

Court tests:

• Rights compliance.

• Anti-capture rules. (no pillar granting itself powers/privileges)

• Non-delegation limits. (no “blank cheque” bills)

• Emergency-power proportionality.

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C. Internal Elections for Each Pillar.

The key is: each pillar must be elected in a way that:

• Matches what it represents.

• Prevents capture by a small clique.

• Stays accountable to citizens indirectly or directly.

1) Political Pillar Election. (citizen-based)

Who votes: All citizens.

System: Mixed Member Proportional. (Or ranked choice with multi-member districts.)

Why: Legitimacy and broad representation.

Anti-capture features.

• Strict campaign finance limits + public funding.

• Independent Electoral Commission. (judiciary-anchored)

• Mandatory transparency for lobbying.

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2) Labour Pillar Election. (worker-based, sector-weighted)

Who votes: Working adults (including gig/self-employed who opt in) through sector councils.

Structure:

• Labour Chamber seats are allocated by economic sector. (Healthcare, education, trades, manufacturing, services, logistics, public sector, etc.)

• Within each sector, seats are filled by ranked-choice elections among candidates endorsed by unions, professional bodies, or worker associations.

Anti-capture features:

• Union power is balanced: Unions can endorse, but cannot monopolize ballot access.

• Term limits + conflict-of-interest bans. (No senior union execs switching straight into corporate boards!)

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3) Business Pillar Election. (License-to-operate + stakeholder design)

This is the most sensitive one. 

If you do it wrong, it becomes an oligarchy! 

If you do it right, it becomes a “production reality check” chamber.

Who votes: Businesses, but weighted and constrained so big capital can’t dominate.

Seat allocation. (Recommended)

Split the Business Chamber into three equal blocs. (each elects 1/3 of seats):

1. SME Bloc. (Small/medium enterprises.)

2. Large Enterprise Bloc. (Big employers.)

3. Innovation/Investment Bloc. (Startups, R&D firms, capital providers.)

Voting weight rules.

• One enterprise, one vote inside the SME bloc. (No money weighting.)

• Large enterprise bloc gets limited weight by employment bands, capped! (To prevent a few giants from dominating.)

• Innovation bloc requires activity criteria, [R&D spending, patents, or certified innovation programs] to prevent fake shell “innovation” voters.

Anti-capture features:

• Mandatory public beneficial ownership registry for voting eligibility.

• “No foreign-control voting” rule for strategic sectors. (Or separate category.)

• Strict lobbying transparency and bans on revolving-door bribery. (Judiciary enforced!)

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D. Cross-Chamber Negotiation Mechanics. (So it doesn’t deadlock.)

1) Conference Committee.

If chambers pass different versions, a tri-pillar conference committee drafts a single compromise.

2) Default Timers.

• The budget must pass by a deadline.

• If not, the temporary continuing budget triggers automatically.
  (This stops “hostage-taking!”)

3) Public Override Referendum. (Rare, controlled!)

If 2 chambers pass a bill repeatedly and the 3rd blocks it, a public referendum can break the deadlock... but only if the judiciary certifies the question is constitutional and not rights-violating!

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E. What goes where? (Policy domains.)

Just to make the architecture usable:

• Political chamber leads: Rights, justice policy, foreign policy, immigration, constitutional matters.

• Labour chamber leads: Labour standards, skills, healthcare delivery standards, social support framework.

• Business chamber leads: Industrial policy, trade frameworks, infrastructure execution standards, and regulatory practicality.

But all require a 2-of-3 passage!!!!!

***

Two optional upgrades. (worth considering)

1. Citizen Jury Chamber. (advisory, non-sovereign)
   Randomly selected citizens review major bills for clarity and “public comprehension.” (This doesn’t add power, but adds reality-checking.)

2. Future Generations Ombudsman. (judiciary-anchored)
   Can trigger mandatory review when legislation creates irreversible environmental or debt burdens.

ALLAN SAID: Show me a schematic, diagram, or template for this structure!

SAL SAID: Below (at the bottom) is a conceptual schematic/template you can use as a reference model for diagrams, blog graphics, or later formal illustrations.

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FUNCTIONAL FLOW TEMPLATE.

1. Bill Origination.

• Political → public law, budgets, foreign policy.

• Business → industrial, infrastructure, trade.

• Labour → workforce, health, education, social systems.

2. Legislative Passage.

• Normal law: 2 of 3 chambers.

• Foundational law: 3 of 3 chambers.

3. Judicial Gate.

• Constitutional compliance.

• Rights protection.

• Anti-capture enforcement.

• Emergency proportionality check.

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SECOND-TIER GROUP DISTRIBUTION (Overlay Layer)

This layer sits beneath the chambers, not beside them:

POLITICAL         BUSINESS          LABOUR 
 
  Culture        Infrastructure     Health & Care
  Media          Industry            Education
  Civil Rights   Science (Applied)   Social Services
  Diplomacy      Resources           Training
        ▲            ▲            ▲
        └─────── JUDICIARY ────────┘
        (Environment, Pure Science,
         Future Generations, Rights)

Judiciary anchors:

• Environment & future generations.

• Pure science independence.

• Electoral integrity.

• Anti-corruption.

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WHY THIS SCHEMATIC WORKS:

• No single chamber rules the roost.

• Judiciary is not ornamental.

• Economics and labour can veto bad policy.

• Politics cannot ignore reality.

• Reality cannot override rights.

It behaves like a load-balanced system, not a popularity contest!

C I V I C S -1 0 1:

ALLAN SAID: Sal, the best form of government seems to be a triumvirate, made up of a three-part system! (Also known as the separation of powers!) 

In the United States this system typically consists of the legislative, executive, and judicial branches, with each having distinct roles in making, enforcing, and interpreting laws! 

In Canada's parliamentary system, these three branches work together to govern at the federal and provincial levels. (Liberals, Conservatives, N.D.P. )

Your mission is to put together a form of representation that will give us fair, inclusive, proportional, and substantive (or active) representation. 

So... your mission... should you accept it... "Make a triumvirate composed of government, business and unions! 

Explore as many possibilities as possible for truly representational government!

SAL-9000 SAID:: Alright, Allan — let’s take your idea of a modern “triumvirate” beyond the classical three branches of government and imagine a structural redesign where government, business, and unions form a balanced tripod of representation. Below, I’ll explore multiple possible models, each with different weights, checks, and balances.

1. The Tripartite Legislature

Instead of a single Parliament or Congress, the legislature is composed of three equal “houses:”

• House of Government (public service & elected officials) → traditional representation of citizens through elections.

• House of Business (industry & commerce) → representatives elected or appointed from sectors such as technology, energy, healthcare, finance, etc.

• House of Labour (workers & unions) → representatives from trade unions, professional associations, and civil society organizations.

Decision Rule: Legislation requires approval from at least two of the three houses — forcing coalition-building and preventing any one sphere from dominating.

2. The Tri-Council Executive

The executive (like a Prime Minister or President) is replaced by a three-person council:

• Government Leader → elected politician.

• Business Leader → chosen by chambers of commerce, trade boards, or even shareholder vote.

• Labour Leader → elected by union federations and worker representatives.

Function:

• Major policies require two out of three agreements.

• Each has veto power on matters within their domain! (e.g., business on taxation, unions on labour law, government on constitutional issues)

3. Constitutional “Thirds”

Embed the triumvirate into the constitution:

• ⅓ of legislative seats are reserved for government-elected reps.

• ⅓ for business/industry representatives.

• ⅓ for labour & unions.

Variation: allow proportional representation within each block. (small businesses vs. large corporations, or white-collar vs. blue-collar unions) This creates layered proportionality.

4. The Advisory Triumvirate

Instead of sharing raw power, each sector has a binding advisory chamber:

• The government drafts laws.

• Business chamber reviews for economic viability.

• Labour chamber reviews for fairness, rights, and sustainability.

Mechanism:

A “red flag” raised by any chamber forces a re-debate and public justification before passage. This ensures active, substantive representation without gridlock.

5. Tri-Economic Planning Board

At the national level, economic direction (budgets, industrial policy, environmental standards) is handled by a tripartite economic board:

• Business ensures innovation and competitiveness.

• Labour ensures fair wages and job protections.

• The Government balances both with long-term national goals. (climate, defence, infrastructure)

This echoes some European “social partnership” models... (e.g., Austria, Germany, Scandinavia) but formalized constitutionally rather than left to tradition.

6. Dynamic Rotation System

A rotating leadership model:

• Every 2 years, one branch chairs the triumvirate, while the other two serve as co-checks.

• Prevents permanent capture by one side.

• Symbolically reinforces the equality of government, business, and labour in shaping national destiny.

7. Sectoral Federalism

Apply the triumvirate at multiple levels:

• Local councils → small businesses + municipal government + local unions.

• Provincial councils → provincial ministries + regional industries + federated labour.

• Federal council → national cabinet + corporate chambers + national union federations.

This creates a “nested” representational ecosystem!

8. People’s Veto Layer

To ensure it doesn’t just become an elite carve-up... introduce:

• A citizens’ assembly (randomly selected) that can review and veto decisions if 2/3 vote against the triumvirate’s decision.

• Keeps the tripod accountable to the broader public, adding a “fourth balance!”

Key Benefits:

• Balance of Power: Prevents capture by any single elite! (political, corporate, or union)

• Substantive Representation: Labour rights and economic sustainability get equal footing with the State and Market.

• Proportional Fairness: voices scale with population, sector size, and region.

• Checks & Transparency: decisions require negotiation, compromise, and multi-perspective review.

⚖️ Allan, do you want me to design a visual chart (like a triangular diagram with arrows and overlaps) to illustrate how these three forces balance and interact? I could make a few alternative diagrams showing different versions (legislature-style, council-style, advisory-style) so you can compare the models side by side. Would that help?

ALLAN SAID: Yes, how do these three forces balance and interact?

SAL-9000 SAID: Image created!

ALLAN SAID: This is all fine so far... but how do we incorporate a separate judicial system?

SAL-9000 SAID: Good question, Allan... if we graft a judicial branch onto the “government–business–union” triumvirate... it raises the issue of whether courts sit outside the tripod, (like an arbiter) or inside it? (as one of the balancing forces) 

Let me sketch the main models:

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1. Judiciary as the “Fourth Pillar.”

• Placement: Centre of the triangle.

• Function: Acts as the referee between government, business, and unions.

• Power: Interprets constitutional rights, reviews legislation, and settles disputes when two branches clash.

• Advantage: Keeps the tripod dynamic... but prevents deadlock by offering final arbitration.

2. Judiciary as Guardian of Rights.

• Role: Courts don’t directly negotiate laws or policies but guarantee fairness, proportionality, and rights within the system.

• Example: If unions and businesses agree on a wage policy... but it infringes on equality rights... the judiciary can strike it down.

• Benefit: Ensures that “substantive representation” (your phrase) is never undermined by sectoral compromise.

3. Judiciary Integrated into the Triumvirate.

• Option A: Judiciary becomes a permanent fourth branch (a “quadrumvirate”), equal to the others.

• Option B: Judiciary remains “Governmental” but with an independent council of appointment drawn ⅓ from elected officials, ⅓ from business, ⅓ from unions.

• Effect: Courts embody balanced legitimacy, not just political appointment.

4. Constitutional Court of Social Balance.

• A specialized tribunal that rules on cases where the tripod fails to agree.

• Members drawn from:

  • Retired judges,

  • Senior labour arbitrators,

  • Industry ombudsmen,

  • Constitutional experts.

• Their rulings are binding, preventing paralysis.

5. Judiciary as “Meta-Representation.”

Think of it as a safeguard of representation itself:

• Government = political voice.

• Business = economic voice.

• Unions = labour voice.

• Judiciary = procedural fairness, ensuring all voices are heard and rules are followed.

🔑 The Choice Comes Down To:

• If you want the judiciary as an independent referee → place it outside, above, or central.

• If you want it as a co-equal force → add it as a fourth branch. (making a square).

• If you want it as a Guardian of rights → embed it as a constitutional court with final say over proportional fairness.

Do you want me to draw the updated diagram showing:

• A “triangle + central court” (referee model),

Four Sided